Oldtimer, new to board

[oldtimer1]

After having posted some responses to a topic by RedWolf, I  looked further into the VC&G site and found this forum.  My career included a number of years as a field service rep., service manager, and service project manager for several computer terminal/mini-computer manufacturers during the '70s and later as a field rep on p.c. based medical products.  I retired last year from Mayo Clinic where I was a Biomedical Technician and took care of processor based physiological monitoring, life support, and cardiac support devices.  My career has taken me and my family from Florida to California and my travels covered a large part of the country.  Although my adult life has revolved around technical devices, I never developed an interest as an hobby or side interest.  I think it may have something to do with getting my butt kicked playin "Pong" in the mid-seventies.

Anyway, I love to talk about some of the early, pre-p.c. days in the industry.  I was one of the wise sages that said, "They'll never get computers cheap enough to have in the average home".  I try to not embellish, exagerate, or otherwise lie about how good the good old days were but they were some interesting times.

I'll try and not just be a lurker, and may occasionally throw in some information.  Most of you are probably too young to know whether I'm making things up or not but since I'm old, I'm allowed.

Looking forward to being here.

[t3hfr3ak]

Allow me to be the first to say welcome to the board. LOL @ the part with "I'm allowed to make it up"

i was born in the later 80's but handled alot of Atari's and Commodore 64's then moved on to 286 and 486. From there it was all Pentiums and such. I've been on the computer since I was 2 years old (in 1990) and was beating my mom at computer games at the same time. I know that sounds hard to believe but you can ask my mom and she will say the same. Also by the age of 6 I was doing basic programing in BASIC and DOS menu editing (not much but ya lol) Now I am doing more advanced programming and am 19 Welcome!

[oldtimer1]

I think it was probably the realization that the people who were growing up with the computer were going to be freaky in their knowledge of systems and how they operate, that made my career go off on a tangent of sorts.  Those young whipper-snappers born in the '80s were kicking my butt with their knowledge and abilities.  One of my bosses convinced me to come to work with him at a medical products company.  Almost almost all electronic medical devices are processor driven now so I wasn't too out of place but it forced me to learn anatomy and physiology so I would know what the clinicians needed as far as the operation of the equipment.  I now know as much about the human body as I do computers.  As a retiree, that can be too much knowledge sometimes.
 I knew when they got rid of the magnetic core memory in computers, things would never be the same.  If you take the time to look back over the evolution of computer, it is mind boggling what man has accomplished.  The same processor chip in your home computer is the same chip used in devices to keep people alive.  Amazing.  If we can just use it for the good of man. 

[RedWolf]

I'm really glad you've joined us, oldtimer.  I'm sure you've got plenty of neat stories to tell.

Here's something to get you started: Out of all the computer-related companies you've worked for, which was the most fun?  What did you do there and what computers did you work with?

[Konata]

OH MY GOLDFISH ANOTHER POSTER!!! YAY! 

And if you make some things up, that''s cool ^___^

[oldtimer1]

Well RedWolf asked for it.  The most fun company I ever worked for was Incoterm Corporation located in Wellesley, Ma.  with their production facilities in Northboro, Ma.  It was a young, up-start company that butted heads with IBM and won. Starting in the late 60's through the seventies.  We manufactured programmable terminals that we software configured to emulate larger systems terminals.  Most prominently, the IBM 3270 although we also emulated CDC, Univac, Honeywell and others.  Our basic product was a terminal that had 2K of memory and would just mimic the emulated terminal and we also could re-configure the same terminal to support additional peripherals.  Since it was the first programmable terminal commercially available, it was also considered to be the first personal computer, although we did not realize it. I remember the Centronics dot-matrics printers being one of our initial printers but just by adding an I/O PCB and software we were able to support printers, mag-tape drives, card readers, punches, external floppies (after they came out in the '70s) and other devices. We went from primarily being an airline reservations system, to a general purpose system.  Banks, law enforcement agencies, travel agencies, railroads, insurance companies, medical billing companies, and a myriad of other businesses utilized our products.
I was hired to support the existing airline res centers and airports in Houston, and to install/support a major installation in Texas law-enforcement agencies in South Texas.  I was on call 24/7 and basically had to cover from San Antonio to the Louisiana line.  Customers in Beaumont, Liberty, Austin, San Antonio, Orange, Fort Bend Co., Houston, Nederland, Silsbee, Kountz, and Anahuac Texas were just some of the towns or cities where our users were located.    There were many 16-20 hour days driving and flying around Texas and the Southwest. We were paid a premium for being on call and the overtime got out of hand sometimes.   After additional manpower was added, we were sent where we were needed although we generally stayed in the southwest.  We all were issued air-travel cards and to leave home in the morning and fly to Dallas, Albuquerque, Austin, Oklahoma City or other cities and be back home for dinner was not uncommon.  We also would back up other offices by taking service calls when they were shorthanded or flying to Chicago/Denver/Atlanta/Seattle/L.A and others to cover while a fellow service rep was out on vacation/training for a week or two.  We worked as a team to survive but developed a trust in our company and each other that I wish everyone could experience.  It wasn't all roses....many of my co-workers ended up divorcing because our lives were controlled by a beeper and an answering service.  If your spouse wasn't supportive (I was lucky, mine was) life could get tough.  In those days, computer service reps were just coming into their own.  There were hundreds of companies starting up, trying to make it, and then fading out.  All of these companies needed the field support so the opportunities were there for employment and rapid advancement.  Job hopping was not uncommon from one company to another so companies had to compensate their good reps well or risk losing them to another company.  I was happy with the ones I worked with.  Houston as a Service Rep., L.A. as a District Supervisor and as a Service Project Manager for a major bank customer, Dallas as a District Manager and as a Project Manager for a major railroad company.  All this in eight years.  Honeywell bought us in '78 (?) and I stayed on for another 2 years till I saw where it was heading.  Honeywell Information Systems took us, swallowed us up in the monster that was HIS at that time and we all went on our separate ways.  Heck of a ride.

P.S.  I have noticed that there are "Grand Master Hackers", and just "Master Hackers" on this board.  Is it a seniority thing?  Post count?  Payoff?  Just curious.

[t3hfr3ak]

lol pretty much posts counts for it all... i've been year for over a year and still look how low i am

[Konata]

P.S.  I have noticed that there are "Grand Master Hackers"

You have to be able to lay down some dope def jams in order get that rank. If you ain't stupidfly on the mic, you gonna get smoked, homeslice.

Aint nothin to say about Bad Boy Benj, cept HE COMIN' STRAIGHT OUTTA COMPTON!

[oldtimer1]

cOldfr3ak,
I understood "Benj" and "Compton" but it may take a while to work on the rest of Kitsunexus' comment.  Could you help in translation?  Hopefully you don't start to talk like that as you approach Hacker status.  If so, I think I'll be stuck in tinkerer status for a while.

[RedWolf]

cOldfr3ak,
I understood "Benj" and "Compton" but it may take a while to work on the rest of Kitsunexus' comment.  Could you help in translation?  Hopefully you don't start to talk like that as you approach Hacker status.  If so, I think I'll be stuck in tinkerer status for a while.

Hehe, that was a good response.  Kitsune's just trying to blindside you with some gangsta jargon. 

The terms like "tinkerer" and "hacker" are purely based on post count.  They're there to make people feel special for contributing to the forum, not to bully up on others (Kitsune!).   And by the way, the "hacker" in the rank title means the "good" type of hacker -- an experimenter who pushes the limits in hardware or software.  I'm not sure if the titles are too dumb though (people might think we're trying to be a l33t hacking/cracking forum).  I might change them to something else soon.

By the way, great story about Incoterm.  Could you tell us more about that "first personal computer" -- the programmable terminal you mentioned?  Do you have a picture of it anywhere?  Do you have one yourself?  What was the model number?

[oldtimer1]

In the early '70s we did not know what a pc was.  The Incoterm SPD 10/20 was the first intelligent terminal on the market http://www.dvq.com/ads/acm/incoterm_acm_72.pdf  and met the basic criteria of a computer.  ie: CPU, arithmetic unit, input device (kbd), output device (crt) and memory.  Anything else (more memory, additional peripherals, faster processing speed, different programming languages, etc.) was just an add on.  I think that the pc of today still meets that basic criteria although the explosion of memory size, processing speed, etc. makes todays pc infinitely more powerful and therefore more usable.  We didn't consider them personal computers because of the cost ($5,000-6,000 for a basic terminal), limited personal use, no graphics other than point-plot, and machine language programming, no internet and only business applications.  About the only games that you could play were Pong, a slot machine program, and some kind of star wars display where you had to use the kbd to operate the functions.  I'm sure the s.w. people had a library of neat stuff, but we in the field didn't have access to it. A mouse was unheard of and a 2.4 K modem was a screamer.  Most people were running 1.2 K or slower, and the day I saw a 19.2 K modem sharing device I thought the peak had been reached. Of course all communications was done over dedicated phone lines.   I have a feeling that you would enjoy programming them because it was accessed through a boot switch and could be done through the keyboard as long as you had the instruction set.  When I first joined the company, the programs were loaded through paper-tape readers, even our diagnostics.  Eight channel paper tapes were punched and read through a reader that we referred to a  pop-corn machine, because that was what it sounded like.  Shortly after that we went to a digital cassette tape reader, and around the mid-seventies the floppy discs came out, although they didn't bear any resemblance to what we know today.  I believe the first ones were 8" discs that were in stand alone devices and sometimes there were dual-drives used.  As other manufacturers (Raytheon, Four Phase, DataPoint, H.P., IBM, Data General, DEC, etc.) started making similar systems they evolved into the pc that we see today.  I think initially IBM and Apple took the concept into the home, along with Radio Shack, Kaypro and others.  By that time Incoterm had been bought out by Honeywell Info Systems and slowly disappeared.
If you refer to my link you can see the basic unit.  It was made up of a kbd., and chassis that contained all of the logic.  There were 5 major boards (each approx. 8" high by 12" wide) including processor, refresh ability for the crt, timing unit, and 2 boards for the memory.  One memory board (big power resistors) was the driver for the second which was a core memory pcb. These boards were arranged vertically from the back of the unit to the front.  There were an additional 8 I/O slots to support the communications (both synchronous and async) and peripheral devices. The rest of the unit was made up of an Ikegami crt, and a power supply that weighed about 5 lbs.
As the company and product progressed, larger systems were introduced.  I believe you have/had a stand alone terminal that was part of one of the Incoterm SPD 20/20 product line.  For the lack of a better term, I will call it a server or controller that serviced multiple crt/kbd sets. Still a computer, but had more memory and faster processing speed. In a large airline res center there could be 100-200 res agents sitting side by side operating these.  Cheaper to have one system serving multiple users.  I think the controller handled up to 12-15 users. Of course when one of the larger systems failed, all hell could break loose.  Just before Easter in '77 an IBM controller failed at Braniff Air Lines res center in Dallas(one of my customers).  Took them 2 days to get the system going.  Braniff estimated they lost close to a million dollars that week-end.
Don't mean to be so long winded but like I said earlier, I'm retired and have nothing better to do.  Now if I could just find someone here in the Ozarks that speaks "gangsta".

[RedWolf]

That's a great story, oldtimer.  Perhaps I should interview you in-depth about your time at Incoterm.  That particular company's contributions to history seem to be mostly forgotten or lost.  We should probably fix that.

[Konata]

You have to be able to lay down some dope def jams in order get that rank. If you ain't stupidfly on the mic, you gonna get smoked, homeslice.

Aint nothin to say about Bad Boy Benj, cept HE COMIN' STRAIGHT OUTTA COMPTON!

Translation:

You will have to be able to create exceptional rhymes in order to get that ranking. If you are not skilled on the microphone, you will fail in your quest, my friend.

There is nothing to say about Benjamin, but supposedly like a popular NWA song he might hail from the city of Compton, CA.

[lecroy]

In the early '70s we did not know what a pc was.  The Incoterm SPD 10/20 was the first intelligent terminal on the market http://www.dvq.com/ads/acm/incoterm_acm_72.pdf  and met the basic criteria of a computer.  ie: CPU, arithmetic unit, input device (kbd), output device (crt) and memory.

LOL!! I just came across this post and had to create an account to post a responce.  I still have one of these sitting in a box.  Dual 8" hard sectored single sided Memorex drives.  The unit had 4K of memory, 2K was shared with the video but if you didn't need all of the screen you could use it for program storage.  It also allowed you to do what we would call a page swap to the disk drive.  You would write a small hook program that would load the segments then jump to them to increase the program size.  There were two video boards.  One had graphics, the other was upper case text only.  Printers were upper case only.    The editor was a single pass thing.  So if you can imagine, you could edit in only one direction, i.e. you could scroll down, but not up.  If you needed to scroll up, you had to close the file, then reload it and start at the top again.   The CPU if you want to call it that was all built from 7400 logic (except the ROMs for video).  With the core memory, driver and video, it took up 4 circuit boards about 2' X 1' each.  There was no BIOS.  It was core so it would keep the last program ran.  If you needed to boot the computer from the disk, there was a small red button that you pressed on the left side of the computer.  This reset the program counter.  Then the lower nibble of each keypress would be loaded into memory.  Then there was a certain set of key you pressed to tell the computer to execute the program.  So, there was a 10 or so key stoke program that would bootstrap the system. 

We had no 1200 baud modems back then.  I had an old Cat brand that was  110/300 BPS.  BBS were around in the late 70's that we could log into.  I did write some software for this old system.  Most was business stuff.   

Dang, I need to blow the dust off the old thing and see if it will fire up.  Too funny old timer1.  Post again and we can swap some war stories on this machine. 

[RedWolf]

That's awesome, lecroy.  Welcome to the forum.

You should post some pictures of your machine.  If you want, you could even write a little article about your process of setting it up again (with pictures) and I'll put it up on VC&G for everybody to check out.

Benj